Pūtahi Hauora
Defence Health HubDr Lucy Hone: Busting Myths on Grief and Loss
Dr Lucy Hone: Busting Myths on Grief and Loss
0:00
boy are we a grief illiterate grief
0:06
awkward death phobic societies hey we're
0:10
not very good at talking about these
0:12
things which is kind of Madness because
0:16
put your hand up if you've ever lost
0:18
someone you truly
0:20
love that's like over half of the room
0:23
um wouldn't this be a useful thing to
0:25
learn about at school so given that
0:28
you're not taught it at schools I
0:29
thought I would just share some really
0:31
basic insights so we run programs that
0:34
are online live and we've got loads of
0:37
free resources I stuck this up here lots
0:40
of free resources blogs podcasts and
0:43
things on helping people find their way
0:46
through loss so please go and have a
0:49
look at those but I thought let's just
0:51
start with have you ever wondered this
0:54
like probably not because it's not your
0:55
world but I think this is so fascinating
0:58
why do we grieve
1:03
because we are
1:05
hardwired for attachment and we live in
1:09
a world of
1:12
impermanence you know we don't just lose
1:15
people but we lose possessions
1:20
projects um things
1:23
places if you stop for a moment all of
1:26
you will have some form of kind of what
1:29
I would refer to as a loss timeline in
1:32
your life you've all gone through losses
1:36
you might have your parents might have
1:37
separated when you were younger you
1:39
might have lost someone very close to
1:41
you but you might have been forced as a
1:45
school kid to move schools when you
1:46
didn't want to you've lost a pet you
1:49
know we've all lost someone and yet we
1:51
live in these incredibly loss phobic and
1:57
awkward societies and I'm on a mission
2:00
change that so um I also love this
2:02
definition that grief is the difference
2:04
between where you are and where you
2:07
thought you would be so we've just been
2:11
doing quite a lot of work around job
2:12
loss because there have been so many
2:15
redundancies recently here um all over
2:18
New Zealand and I think what really
2:21
struck us is that when people suffer
2:24
experience redundancy they don't think
2:26
of it as grief and yet of course they're
2:29
grieving their purpose their daily
2:32
routine their friends at work you know
2:35
all of these things that's grief your
2:38
feeling and I think once you know it's
2:40
grief that's important because it opens
2:42
you up to some really helpful grief
2:45
advice that isn't widely available and
2:48
I'm just going to skim you quickly
2:49
through that now so if you are someone
2:52
who's helping someone who is coping with
2:55
any form of loss not just talking
2:57
bereavement we're talking non-death
2:58
losses too you know someone who's going
3:00
through a really acrimonious separation
3:04
somebody whose parents have just got to
3:08
be put into a dementia unit or even a
3:11
relative who's had their driving license
3:14
taken away there are so many losses what
3:17
I want you to think about is um first
3:19
and foremost to give them hope and tell
3:22
them that you believe in them and that
3:23
you're going to be there for
3:25
them over the Long
3:28
Haul um and that going to walk alongside
3:31
them with this journey actually in the
3:34
research we do around coping with loss
3:35
we are told time and time again that
3:38
what Grievers want is someone to Bear
3:41
witness to their Journey so you don't
3:44
have to have all the answers but
3:46
actually just walking alongside them
3:50
Going the Distance is one of the most
3:52
valuable things you can do do you guys
3:55
know who Steve Kerney is who's the yeah
3:58
the does mental skills for the Army I
4:00
did um some work with him last year in
4:03
after Cyclone Gabriel and I love his
4:06
phrase that you know how do you have a
4:07
conversation with someone about a mental
4:10
health issue and you don't really know
4:11
how to his phrase is that you feel the
4:14
weird and do it anyway and I love that
4:17
it's like you know coners some
4:18
conversations are going to be awkward
4:20
doesn't mean they're not important
4:22
doesn't mean you shouldn't have
4:24
them okay um and then tell them you know
4:27
remind them remind them that you heard
4:30
this woman come and talk to you who said
4:31
that humans are incredibly adaptable in
4:35
the face of change and I love this
4:37
phrase from one of my favorite
4:40
researchers Tom attig who says that
4:42
coping with loss any form of bereavement
4:46
is about relearning to live in the world
4:50
it takes time it's hard work it's
4:53
horrible but it is possible okay just a
4:57
couple of other things so help them find
5:00
what works for them so grief is as
5:02
individual as your fingerprint is really
5:05
important to know there are no five
5:07
stages of grief there is no right way to
5:11
grief you have got to find your way
5:14
which takes trial and error um at the
5:18
end of my TED Talk I made this comment
5:20
which I didn't really think much of at
5:22
the time but actually this has kind of
5:24
become the philosophy of all of my grief
5:26
work is that it is possible to live and
5:29
grieve at the same time not what you
5:32
wanted not pretty not easy bloody hard
5:35
work but it actually is possible to kind
5:39
of keep functioning and do The Grieving
5:42
at the same time um and that is what we
5:45
do lots of training in now for people um
5:49
and really important for everybody
5:51
please to leave here toight today
5:53
knowing that there are no five stages of
5:55
grief put your hand up if you've heard
5:56
of that model because most people have
5:58
heard of some of the five stages of
6:00
grief um and you know this was a model
6:03
that came from Elizabeth Kubler Ross's
6:05
work years ago so first really important
6:08
to know that it came from her
6:11
observations of people who were
6:13
dying so it was anticipatory grief
6:18
people who were in hospice who were
6:19
dying who apparently went through five
6:21
stages of grief for the bereaved there
6:24
are no five stages of grief that's utter
6:28
rubbish and all so many scientific
6:31
studies now have shown that grief is as
6:33
individual as your fingerprint you've
6:35
got to find your way you're not going
6:38
through those stages I'll let you just
6:40
quickly read this
6:52
too certainly in our work we often have
6:55
clients coming to us saying I need some
6:57
help I need some coaching I need a coun
7:00
because I'm not going I'm not grieving
7:02
properly I'm not going through the five
7:03
stages of grief so they actually
7:05
definitely are causing more harm um
7:08
three more useful insights is one
7:11
continuing Bond Theory which tells you
7:13
that actually the task of mour is to
7:17
work out how to keep this person present
7:19
in your world even though they're not
7:22
physically here anymore so little small
7:25
ways of kind of practices and rituals
7:27
that enable you to keep them close keep
7:29
thinking about them even though you know
7:32
they're not here so you're not in denial
7:34
you know they're not here but You' found
7:36
some way of thinking about their legacy
7:38
to live for them that makes you feel
7:42
like you're never going to forget them
7:45
second is oscillation Theory just very
7:48
quickly this shows has demonstrated that
7:51
when we are going through grief the most
7:53
healthy thing you can do is sometimes
7:56
you do really wallow in your grief you
7:58
can't get on out of you know off the
8:01
couch or get out of bed you're really
8:04
stuck in that kind of grief feelings
8:07
loneliness misery pining Keening and
8:10
then you have to also get on with
8:12
everyday life and we call this the
8:15
restorative Zone and this is the loss
8:17
Zone and what the research shows is you
8:20
don't want to spend too much time in
8:21
either of these you want to EB and flow
8:23
oscillate backwards and forwards make
8:25
sense and I actually think this is a
8:27
really healthy theory for a approaching
8:29
any really challenging life situation
8:32
you know there are times when you want
8:33
to approach it and there are times when
8:35
it's okay to avoid it lick your wounds
8:38
and distract yourself with something
8:40
else ideally something healthy okay and
8:44
the third is that when we lose someone
8:46
we don't just lose someone and this
8:48
applies to job losses too there's beyond
8:51
the primary loss there are all these
8:53
secondary losses you know the person
8:55
that I don't know gave you your movie
8:58
recommendations the person who helped
9:00
you do your taxx Returns the person that
9:04
you know gave you your physical contact
9:06
so it's important for people when they
9:08
are grieving to understand and
9:10
acknowledge their secondary losses
9:12
because doing so enables you to feel
9:16
less overwhelmed like why is this grief
9:19
just hitting me on all sides at all
9:21
times and that's because there are so
9:24
many secondary
9:26
losses okay so finally um I I'm going to
9:30
leave you this slide and I think it's
9:33
really helpful for you guys just to
9:35
think about um this in your own life
9:39
like when have you managed to already
9:41
coope with loss and what has helped you
9:43
do
9:44
so who were the people there for
9:47
you what did you learn
boy are we a grief illiterate grief
0:06
awkward death phobic societies hey we're
0:10
not very good at talking about these
0:12
things which is kind of Madness because
0:16
put your hand up if you've ever lost
0:18
someone you truly
0:20
love that's like over half of the room
0:23
um wouldn't this be a useful thing to
0:25
learn about at school so given that
0:28
you're not taught it at schools I
0:29
thought I would just share some really
0:31
basic insights so we run programs that
0:34
are online live and we've got loads of
0:37
free resources I stuck this up here lots
0:40
of free resources blogs podcasts and
0:43
things on helping people find their way
0:46
through loss so please go and have a
0:49
look at those but I thought let's just
0:51
start with have you ever wondered this
0:54
like probably not because it's not your
0:55
world but I think this is so fascinating
0:58
why do we grieve
1:03
because we are
1:05
hardwired for attachment and we live in
1:09
a world of
1:12
impermanence you know we don't just lose
1:15
people but we lose possessions
1:20
projects um things
1:23
places if you stop for a moment all of
1:26
you will have some form of kind of what
1:29
I would refer to as a loss timeline in
1:32
your life you've all gone through losses
1:36
you might have your parents might have
1:37
separated when you were younger you
1:39
might have lost someone very close to
1:41
you but you might have been forced as a
1:45
school kid to move schools when you
1:46
didn't want to you've lost a pet you
1:49
know we've all lost someone and yet we
1:51
live in these incredibly loss phobic and
1:57
awkward societies and I'm on a mission
2:00
change that so um I also love this
2:02
definition that grief is the difference
2:04
between where you are and where you
2:07
thought you would be so we've just been
2:11
doing quite a lot of work around job
2:12
loss because there have been so many
2:15
redundancies recently here um all over
2:18
New Zealand and I think what really
2:21
struck us is that when people suffer
2:24
experience redundancy they don't think
2:26
of it as grief and yet of course they're
2:29
grieving their purpose their daily
2:32
routine their friends at work you know
2:35
all of these things that's grief your
2:38
feeling and I think once you know it's
2:40
grief that's important because it opens
2:42
you up to some really helpful grief
2:45
advice that isn't widely available and
2:48
I'm just going to skim you quickly
2:49
through that now so if you are someone
2:52
who's helping someone who is coping with
2:55
any form of loss not just talking
2:57
bereavement we're talking non-death
2:58
losses too you know someone who's going
3:00
through a really acrimonious separation
3:04
somebody whose parents have just got to
3:08
be put into a dementia unit or even a
3:11
relative who's had their driving license
3:14
taken away there are so many losses what
3:17
I want you to think about is um first
3:19
and foremost to give them hope and tell
3:22
them that you believe in them and that
3:23
you're going to be there for
3:25
them over the Long
3:28
Haul um and that going to walk alongside
3:31
them with this journey actually in the
3:34
research we do around coping with loss
3:35
we are told time and time again that
3:38
what Grievers want is someone to Bear
3:41
witness to their Journey so you don't
3:44
have to have all the answers but
3:46
actually just walking alongside them
3:50
Going the Distance is one of the most
3:52
valuable things you can do do you guys
3:55
know who Steve Kerney is who's the yeah
3:58
the does mental skills for the Army I
4:00
did um some work with him last year in
4:03
after Cyclone Gabriel and I love his
4:06
phrase that you know how do you have a
4:07
conversation with someone about a mental
4:10
health issue and you don't really know
4:11
how to his phrase is that you feel the
4:14
weird and do it anyway and I love that
4:17
it's like you know coners some
4:18
conversations are going to be awkward
4:20
doesn't mean they're not important
4:22
doesn't mean you shouldn't have
4:24
them okay um and then tell them you know
4:27
remind them remind them that you heard
4:30
this woman come and talk to you who said
4:31
that humans are incredibly adaptable in
4:35
the face of change and I love this
4:37
phrase from one of my favorite
4:40
researchers Tom attig who says that
4:42
coping with loss any form of bereavement
4:46
is about relearning to live in the world
4:50
it takes time it's hard work it's
4:53
horrible but it is possible okay just a
4:57
couple of other things so help them find
5:00
what works for them so grief is as
5:02
individual as your fingerprint is really
5:05
important to know there are no five
5:07
stages of grief there is no right way to
5:11
grief you have got to find your way
5:14
which takes trial and error um at the
5:18
end of my TED Talk I made this comment
5:20
which I didn't really think much of at
5:22
the time but actually this has kind of
5:24
become the philosophy of all of my grief
5:26
work is that it is possible to live and
5:29
grieve at the same time not what you
5:32
wanted not pretty not easy bloody hard
5:35
work but it actually is possible to kind
5:39
of keep functioning and do The Grieving
5:42
at the same time um and that is what we
5:45
do lots of training in now for people um
5:49
and really important for everybody
5:51
please to leave here toight today
5:53
knowing that there are no five stages of
5:55
grief put your hand up if you've heard
5:56
of that model because most people have
5:58
heard of some of the five stages of
6:00
grief um and you know this was a model
6:03
that came from Elizabeth Kubler Ross's
6:05
work years ago so first really important
6:08
to know that it came from her
6:11
observations of people who were
6:13
dying so it was anticipatory grief
6:18
people who were in hospice who were
6:19
dying who apparently went through five
6:21
stages of grief for the bereaved there
6:24
are no five stages of grief that's utter
6:28
rubbish and all so many scientific
6:31
studies now have shown that grief is as
6:33
individual as your fingerprint you've
6:35
got to find your way you're not going
6:38
through those stages I'll let you just
6:40
quickly read this
6:52
too certainly in our work we often have
6:55
clients coming to us saying I need some
6:57
help I need some coaching I need a coun
7:00
because I'm not going I'm not grieving
7:02
properly I'm not going through the five
7:03
stages of grief so they actually
7:05
definitely are causing more harm um
7:08
three more useful insights is one
7:11
continuing Bond Theory which tells you
7:13
that actually the task of mour is to
7:17
work out how to keep this person present
7:19
in your world even though they're not
7:22
physically here anymore so little small
7:25
ways of kind of practices and rituals
7:27
that enable you to keep them close keep
7:29
thinking about them even though you know
7:32
they're not here so you're not in denial
7:34
you know they're not here but You' found
7:36
some way of thinking about their legacy
7:38
to live for them that makes you feel
7:42
like you're never going to forget them
7:45
second is oscillation Theory just very
7:48
quickly this shows has demonstrated that
7:51
when we are going through grief the most
7:53
healthy thing you can do is sometimes
7:56
you do really wallow in your grief you
7:58
can't get on out of you know off the
8:01
couch or get out of bed you're really
8:04
stuck in that kind of grief feelings
8:07
loneliness misery pining Keening and
8:10
then you have to also get on with
8:12
everyday life and we call this the
8:15
restorative Zone and this is the loss
8:17
Zone and what the research shows is you
8:20
don't want to spend too much time in
8:21
either of these you want to EB and flow
8:23
oscillate backwards and forwards make
8:25
sense and I actually think this is a
8:27
really healthy theory for a approaching
8:29
any really challenging life situation
8:32
you know there are times when you want
8:33
to approach it and there are times when
8:35
it's okay to avoid it lick your wounds
8:38
and distract yourself with something
8:40
else ideally something healthy okay and
8:44
the third is that when we lose someone
8:46
we don't just lose someone and this
8:48
applies to job losses too there's beyond
8:51
the primary loss there are all these
8:53
secondary losses you know the person
8:55
that I don't know gave you your movie
8:58
recommendations the person who helped
9:00
you do your taxx Returns the person that
9:04
you know gave you your physical contact
9:06
so it's important for people when they
9:08
are grieving to understand and
9:10
acknowledge their secondary losses
9:12
because doing so enables you to feel
9:16
less overwhelmed like why is this grief
9:19
just hitting me on all sides at all
9:21
times and that's because there are so
9:24
many secondary
9:26
losses okay so finally um I I'm going to
9:30
leave you this slide and I think it's
9:33
really helpful for you guys just to
9:35
think about um this in your own life
9:39
like when have you managed to already
9:41
coope with loss and what has helped you
9:43
do
9:44
so who were the people there for
9:47
you what did you learn